Gevlon the Magician

Gevlon the Magician

***EDIT: This post by Gevlon is the target of my article.***

***EDIT: For an excellent response to this post please check out Boxing the Cap.***

I’m going to smash Gevlon’s gold making staple: “massive undercutting with inscription” and show you not only why it’s better to use more efficient addons such as quick auctions 3 and ktq for managing your glyphs but also how to defeat a goblin on your server who’s crashing prices. NOTE: I have all 400 glyphs and assume Gevlon does as well.

I’ve always used quick auctions 3 and ktq to maximize my glyph earnings per day (1-2 daily post batches with 12 hour durations) and let’s discuss this method first. Besides selling off hands, rune scrolls, armor vellums and weapon vellums to make gold (sometimes as much as my glyph earnings), I focus on having 6 inscription bags in one character’s bank which houses all my glyphs I wish to sell. For details on what I do with quick auctions 3 please take a look at the tutorials section on the left side of the site. I sell every day of the week and spend about one hour on weekends  crafting to fill the voids after a week of sales. I also try to buy inks of the sea if they are 3 gold or less to save time milling (although milling makes more gold thanks to snowfall inks and what you can make with them). With this method I’m able to focus on the most profitable glyphs (30 gold is my current minimum profit to craft) and avoid posting hundreds of 5-29 gold glyphs which aren’t the most popular anyway. This saves time crafting and time is money friend.

Results: 15,000 gold in a week for one hour crafting and two hours posting/cancelling glyphs.

You could make 25,000 gold a week with 3-4 posts per day. I have done this in the past when glyphs were more popular but I just don’t have the time to do that now during this experiment.

The cost of herbs, inks, frozen orbs and parchments came out to be 1500 gold so that's 13,500 gold profit and it makes sense considering a faces of doom will net me 150 gold profit, glyphs themselves can net 55 gold profit each (you have to have the rare ones for this to work in bulk) and thus all the items I sell are making 5-17x what I invested.

Well that was Markco’s method, let’s look at Gevlon’s.

With hours of more work than what I listed above as you will be crafting every glyph in the game, post on 48 hours and for 5 gold no matter what glyph prices are. You will also need to have much more space to house the glyphs which will make them look nice and pretty in screenshots. Sure you can move this price value of 5 gold up and down a little bit depending on what competition does, but the end result is you still make very little gold. Players buy your 5 gold glyphs because they need them or because they are simply reposting for 40 gold more. Especially with more popular glyphs which not everyone can craft this method fails horribly. Players just relist and make 10x your profit. You may think you’re making lots of gold but in reality you’re making a very small percentage and the smart players are the ones letting you craft glyphs for them to buy up and repost.

I used the Gevlon method and made 8,000 gold in a week after paying for the cost of herbs, inks and parchments. You may think well that’s because you suck Markco and Gevlon simply is better at posting his 5 gold glyphs for the same time frame as you! He’s better at pushing buttons! No, actually  he’s just a good liar. His gold earnings were stated to be 21,000 gold in a week selling like this. Now at the time glyphs were selling quicker than they are this late in the expansion and herbs were less than half the price they are currently, however, Gevlon did not include the fact that using his method means that for each stack of herbs you buy you’re getting 6 glyphs worth 27 gold + a snowfall ink if you sell it for 5-15 gold. That’s 42 gold maximum for the investment whereas my method is making as much as 320 gold per stack of herbs. So that 21,000 gold sounds big but it includes the 13,125 gold needed to make that much! In reality he only made 8125 gold, which is darn near close to my own amounts. The reason I’m so close to his amount even though I have to deal with more expensive herbs and less demand for glyphs is that I posted twice daily with the 5 gold glyphs whereas he posted on 24 or 48 hour increments. 13k invested, 8k earned vs 1.5k invested, 13.5k earned. It’s possible that he was getting all his herbs from farmers for around 15 gold a stack or less, so my numbers may be off but the difference between Gevlon’s gold invested and 1.5k invested as well as only 3 hours played makes Markco’s method far superior in terms of gold per hour.

I got plenty of hate mail with Gevlon’s method from scribes who said I was ruining their business, but it was the other sellers which didn’t send hate mail that knew just what to do. These businessmen and women bought out every glyph worth 20-60 gold which I posted for 5 and then relisted. They gave me hope in humanity lol. Gevlon’s method is pure genius… you think you’re making tons of gold when in actuality you’re just fueling the real auctioneers! You’re succeeding at … failing.

Ok now some of you are saying well wait a moment on my small server there are too many glyph makers and not enough buyers, what's worse players are camping the ah with their glyphs and fighting over every sale. The prices are below 30 gold for every glyph and 1/4 of the auctions on the auction house are glyphs themselves! Well if you find yourself in this unique situation then odds are neither method is going to net fabulous results. If you can, try to focus on the non-glyph methods for making gold as much as the glyphs themselves. Use sites like www.wowpopular.com to figure out the best glyphs to make and only make those, try to focus your efforts and save time. Also, check out when players are logging in that are your competition and keep a little spreadsheet so that you can see when is the best time to be up against the least people. One trick I use to post during prime time is to have like 10 of every top profit glyph and if someone undercuts then I simply repost without canceling. This buys me about 10 very valuable minutes where my opponent has to cancel hundreds of auctions, get them from the mail and then repost. It has proven a very effective method during prime time for me and if you are only posting around 100 glyphs vs the 200+ that other posters are putting out odds are they will consider not canceling their whole stash since 50% or less of their glyphs are showing up as red on qa3.

On my server there is a camper that plays basically the same times I do and I still made amazing profit by using the post but don't cancel method. Using a spreadsheet I was able to find the best times to post and avoid the vast majority of competition. Would you have guessed that 9:00 weekdays was actually the best time to post since my opponents did not undercut me until like lunch time? That gave me three hours where I was the only person with glyphs and the majority of my sales came from there and during prime time in the evening.

On a personal note, Gevlon’s blog is about making his own little world and following his own rules to beat a version of the game that he creates. Everything from pvp’ing in a group with excessive buffs against unorganized one shottable players to beating ulduar in ilevel 200 gear (which actually is the same as entry level epics) on normal modes with nerfs to the content to defeating low level dungeons on twinked pet class characters with enhanced talents not previously available in vanilla while bosses are 30% easier just goes to show you that he simply is in his own little world. He talks of opportunity cost and yet he builds a strategy which does nothing but line the pockets of more intelligent auctioneers. You see this glyph strategy of his is just an extension of building his own rule set for a game that already has rules which the rest of the player base follows. Sure you might make a pittance following his strategy and eventually hit gold cap (gee have fun doing this strategy for 7 months like he did) but I can also farm for the same amount of time invested and make the same gold selling borean leather at its current rate of 15 gold per stack. Some players consider the things Gevlon achieves as really challenging but what would really be impressive would be if he could compete in the game using the game’s standard rules, you know the ones that everyone else is prepared to play with. Imagine if I had gotten to 1800 with blue gear in season 5. Sure it would have seemed impressive but all I would have proved was that bad players were in the sub 1800’s! Instead I took an unknown spec/comp (ret paladin and prot warrior) and as far as I know am one of two teams in the world to get gladiator with that specific spec/comp (there have been a handful of prot players who got gladiator later with beastcleave in 3’s and prot paladin/prot warrior since then). That’s the difference between someone like Gevlon who makes his own little world but makes it seem impressive and someone like myself who takes the same rules and game play that everyone has access to and excels at it.

The genius behind what Gevlon does is that he creates drama and collects accolades for doing things which really deserve neither. If I were to follow this mentality I would seek public praise for my video of going from 2700 rating down to 1000 and winning a handful of games in season 6 playing 2v1. Sure it looks super impressive but in reality I created my own little scenario in which case my opponents had no idea they were fighting a gladiator prot warrior in their 1000-1600 bracket. All I proved was that I could trounce unsuspecting bad players two vs one but if I were Gevlon I would make it sound like I was the best pvper in the world for doing this and no one had done it before so that makes me super amazing!

Have fun with your drama Gevlon! Maybe you’ll come up with some post about how my numbers are off or how I am lying, but if you look at the jmtc forums you’ll see that there are many players there who have done the exact same experiment and came to the same conclusions as myself. All hype and no substance, I present to you Gevlon the Magician. Don't follow his strategy, if you see someone doing this on your server buy them out and relist but stick to the top 10 of each classes' glyphs.

44 comments: on "Gevlon the Magician"

  1. I love it! I had a goblin inform me and the other big glyph-crafter on my server that he was crashing the market down to 4g from 50g. Well... the other competitor dropped his ceiling to 3g, and I simply pulled out of the market for a time and used the spare time to drop Herbalism and make myself a second Transmute-spec'd Alchemist to complement my JC'er.

    About a month later (a couple days after I payed for a friend's chopper with my jeweling profits), the goblin whispers me and says that he's stopping the crash, he was barely pulling a profit and spending at least twice as much time online managing his wall.

    Nowadays me and the aforementioned competitor are posting back and forth with a 40g ceiling. And neither hide nor hair has been seen from the goblin.

    Eternal thanks for the blog! You've transformed me into a average player who played all of BC but had to wait a couple months into Wrath to buy my first epic flying; into a player who's financed two choppers and a Traveler's Mammoth and (forseeably) never has to worry about gold in this game again!

  2. Gevlon is a complete idiot. I'm subscribed to him for the laugh. The way he refers to everyone as "M&S" is sickening. Thank you for posting this.

  3. i think gelvons a dick head.

  4. Gevlon's personality is typical of people new to capitalism. Embraces pragmatism and tries to hoard money. finds both insufficient to prove that hes not a failure then try all ways of getting fame, even to the extent of defaming others. Hes simply lost trying to find meaning in life.

  5. Yo Markco, while you're on the topic of Inscription I have a question. You do sell on Kel'Thuzad right? I've noticed something on that server, I'm a small time seller in the glyph market because I don't have the time to repost a lot, but I've noticed there is one guy ALWAYS on, "Iundercutyou" a warlock in stormwind nearly 16-20 hrs a day. So is he a bot or what?

  6. Gevlon is Wow's Hitler. You may not like his methods but, you can't deny the genius. (if anyone thinks Hitler wasn't a genius you are lying to yourself)

    His gold making I don't care about but, his other projects are very interesting.

    Great post Marcko!

  7. *Applause*

  8. First I have to pick on you for starting drama this time. Second ilvl 200 blues aren't ilvl 200 epics, and so going 10/12 in ICC is not bad. Third, and finally the deep under cutting strategy relies on the same issue as every other strategy,deeper pockets and more determination. It's the only strategy I've seen "force" others out of the market, but it raises the question, "why do I care if jimbo makes money as long as I have more than I need/want?"

    In my opinion this is the real social failing of Gevlon, he cares more about being "the best" than making gold.(keeping up with the Joneses?) Personally I find it hard to keep working past 100k, since I have nothing to spend it on.

  9. I post glyphs on onyxia

  10. Zeran the strategy is dumb becAuse you waste hours crafting and getting very little in return while smart auctioneers just buy out the expensive glyphs which you undercut by 50 gold so that they can relist them. Sure you made 4.4 gold but someone else made 52 off your work.

  11. You may be right, the only thing that bothers me in this post is that Gevlon stopped posting about money making months ago, why the sudden drama? Why do you even care what Gevlon does...

  12. I'm on a small/medium pop server way down in raiding. I have made some reasonable profits off glyphs, currently there's several people who've entered the market and brought prices way down... the *better* glyphs tend to go for 6-10g.

    I don't think the situation will last forever, as the AH has limited herb supplies now... but I bought tons when I could, when they were cheap, and I'm sitting on 8K inks and extra herbs still to be milled. I post glyphs to make a bit of profit, and to keep tabs on the market. I like to vary my minimum from time to time, just to confuse the other players if they're basing their strategy on what I'm doing.

    Gevlon *IS* right about one thing... the market will go to the guy willing to take the lowest profit. Of course, that profit might be negative... which I'm willing to let the other guy have for a time.

    (Glyphs aren't the only market I sell in, either.)

  13. @Zeran
    "ilvl 200 blues aren't ilvl 200 epics, and so going 10/12 in ICC is not bad."
    Many people assume that because an item has its name in blue instead of purple, it is worse, even though it is the same ilevel. This is not the case!

    Both rare and epic quality items with the same ilevel have the same stat budgets (thats what the ilevel refers to). The difference between an ilevel 200 rare item and an ilevel 200 epic item is in how the stats are distributed - epic items have more distribution of stats, they don't have more.

    EG A rare 200 tanking item may have strength, stamina and defense. An epic 200 tanking item may have strength, stamina, defense, dodge and a socket. But the epic item would have less of each stat to match the item budget.

    Different stats have different weights (sockets are assigned weights). When you add up all the stats adjusted for their weights you find that an ilevel 200 item has the same budget as any other ilevel 200 item. The only thing that is not weighted are tier bonuses.

    So, going into Ulduar in ilevel 200 blue gear is the same as going into Ulduar in ilevel 200 epic gear.

  14. Well written! Looking forward to reading all the drama as all gold blogs were getting a bit stale with the start of summer. Anyhoo, I just wanted to say that it was your blog that got me making gold at a totally new level. I was stuck at 100K with little motivation and now I'm on my way toward my 2nd gold cap.

  15. @Feezee
    L2Math?
    Go compare Thane's tainted greathelm to Arcane-Shielded Helm and tell me how you dreamed up they have the same state budget. Epic has more than rare, which has more than uncommon which has more than common. This has been true throughout the history of wow.

    @Markco
    Any strategy designed to control (control=/=influence) the market is dumb as you spend more effort on attempted control and so reap less rewards. I think his strategy is the best at completing a worthless goal, but I think there are better ways to accomplish the goal of making gold.

  16. Well said. I too think Gevlon is a retard and find Goblin style posters easy to counter.

  17. purplezorlak said... July 4, 2010 at 9:21 PM

    I'm sorry to burst the bubble, but at least in my server there are no glyphs on the price ranges you mention. highest priced ones are arounf 16g, most of the rest barely goes over 3g so your method is useless, but feel free to come ans see for yourself. US uther

  18. Pennypincher said... July 4, 2010 at 9:45 PM

    LOL well said Marko, I used to think the Goblin had some sort of clue but the more I read the more I realized he was just full of himself, it wasnt till I came to JMTC that I found where people actually making decent gold are hanging out

  19. @Feezee
    "Both rare and epic quality items with the same ilevel have the same stat budgets (thats what the ilevel refers to). The difference between an ilevel 200 rare item and an ilevel 200 epic item is in how the stats are distributed - epic items have more distribution of stats, they don't have more."

    That is not true at all, and you only need to compare an ilvl 200 blue weapon with a ilvl 200 epic weapon to see that. An items weapon dps is directly related to it's item budget. An ilvl 200 epic will have roughly the same budget as a ilvl 213 blue.

    I quite like Undergeared myself, though I think Gevlon is insufferable. I don't much care for his economic views whether in game or out. Even with a 25% buff, you're still only equal to about 226 epic gear in ilvl 200 blues. While what they're doing is certainly not as impressive as say killing heroic Lich King, that wasnt the point of it anyway. Rather it shows how easy normal modes of current raids are, and people who say they are not progressing normal can't blame gear for their lack of success.

  20. Good lord, hostile much? I expected more from you, Markco.

    What you didn't do is describe the gold-per-hour of the various techniques, which is, imo, a much better measure then how much you scrapped off over the course of a week.

    He actually does often make good points and by simply writing him off, you do yourself a disservice. His point regarding simply massively undercutting with a long expire is that you can spend a lot less of your life canceling and posting auctions then you do if you don't take that route.

    Now I do agree, picking a more profitable subset of products -is- the better choice. But I don't think that was the argument being made.

  21. We have a few goblins on my server... they are funny... I usually just wait em out and when they run outta stock and go back to my methods.

    Also gevlon will prolly consider u doggin his method of helmet kid capitalism a win since he now has more fame...good or bad gevlon is famous in his own downsy way.

  22. Revenge is a dish best served cold?

  23. I feel a reply coming....

    Handbags at dawn....

    One thing you both do is assume the reason for players to play the auction house is maximising gold. However there comes a point relatively quickly when your gold surpass your needs and yet you still play the ah game.

  24. Winter my method makes more gold per hour by a landslide.

  25. Like goblins say .. time is money and i refuse to spend too much time to make a "decent" profit.

    So i agree with Markco big time. I'm not a big fan of glyph market (competition on my server is mad). Soon I'll hit haft a millions gold and i was tired to craft thousand of glyph each week and end up setting up my QA3 at 20g minimum. I spend much less time on inscription and do approximately the same profit.

    But for my part i still keep every single glyph up on my 3 alt and simply restock glyph once per week and it take less that 30min to restock.

    Maybe i should consider to cut down to the "popular one" only and set up everything on one single AH mule instead of 3.

  26. I don´t believe in this massive goblin method works in every server.
    Like Marko said in a previous post... Farmers are missing.
    Herbs prices are sky rocketing.
    It´s getting harder and harder to get good deals on herbs. You still can find some good prices at right times, but it ins´t enough to profit at this ridiculous low margin glyphs.
    I still make money on glyphs but It´s now more tricky on herb buying.

    My 2 non-farming cents,
    Zim

  27. Gevlon is full of shit, and is a true asshole who for all his elitism and M&S talk can't even learn proper English like the rest of the world. Don't listen to him folks. He's not a Messiah.

  28. @Earthquake
    Not all glyphs sell, and some glyphs don't sell at all. I found I was able to fit all the nicely selling glyphs on one character with full inscription bags.

    You can keep the worthless glyphs in preparation for the Cataclysm game mechanic patch. If they implement the glyph spell book that each character can learn glyphs into, a lot of people will look into buying every glyph for their characters. I know I will get even the useless glyphs for my main and alt, just because I'm a completionist that way. So there'll be an opportunity to sell glyph types that have never sold before.

  29. Uh, interesting post but why are you starting drama with Gevlon all of a sudden after so long? Don't get me wrong, I can't stand the guy and I think he's scum but I can't help wondering why you're calling him out again? I honestly think just ignoring his comments from a while ago is the high road and makes you all the more respectable, rather than starting stuff again all of a sudden. The stuff about the glyph making is awesome and I totally agree with you, but I don't think it's worth it for you to start Drama with Gevlon again.

    Of course, this could just be part of the strategy. Get Gevlon to focus attention on you again, and then more of his readers will be curious about JMTC and come over... maybe that's it? lol

  30. Hi Markco, one of you subscribers for a long time now... In the old days when both blogs were young and you both competed for the same readers (advid gold makers) you made a point of not getting into the tit for tat silliness with him and I must say this post while informative is not up to your usual high standards as I feel that it more a vent then about the information presented... Yes as you have pointed out there is limited to little use for his technique and it is far outdated by your current ones... His childish rants and story telling only fuels his little world of naysayers and "proof"... But your usual high brow attitude and outlook usually ignore his rants... I hope this isn't a preview of what's to come other wise your blog will turn into the same as... Only good for a laugh

  31. Your method is obviously vastly inferior to Gevlon's. The time messing about with spreadsheets to find the best time to list and posting new glyphs when you get undercut (so you need to camp the AH to tell when you are undercut in the first place) mean that you may make slightly more money but it is clear that it will take much longer, meaning less g/hour.

    I also don't see the need to post personal attacks on Gevlon. Just because he made you look stupid about 6 months ago. You are just making yourself look more stupid now, when most people had probably forgotten about it. Holding a personal grudge in this deeply childish an pathetic way also kinda proves his points about "M&S" for him.

  32. At the anonymous above, your comment is pretty ignorant, I can see the top ten of each glyph with qa3 in around 20 seconds with the get data scan. Either educate yourselves with the forums and posts on this blog or don't post these blatantly biased and ignorant comments.

  33. To the anonymous poster above... your comment is rather ignorant as it only takes 20 seconds to get the top 10 cheapest glyphs for each class thanks to a get data scan with qa3. I would advise that anyone else who wishes to see their comment posted here that they check the jmtc forums or posts on this blog to check their information. People blindly following Gevlon just look silly when they post like the anonymous above. At least get some facts behind what you are saying!

  34. Hi Markco, will you be selling 'twilight type' T-shirts with 'TEAM MARKCO' or 'TEAM GEVLON' I would defintely be wearing the Markco one as Gevlon is just an idiot with delusions of grandure. I read his blog everyday just to check out the latest spite he is spouting. Tiora- Darkspear - EU

  35. Wow, awesome calling out of Gevlon.
    I long ago stopped bothering to read his blog when I accidentally stumbled upon yours early on and realized yours was far superior on all points. (especially personality)

    lol for me making gold is all about maximizing profits for minimal time invested, Gevlons strat is epic fails on both imo.

    Great post! hehe was actually an interesting and nice change from your usual quiet and overly helpful/nice demeanor.

  36. What I find interesting in the comments is just how many of them do little more than attack Gevlon's personality - something that he himself (as a self proclaimed non-social) would write off and ignore.

    I don't know who's gold making strategy is better, and frankly I'm not that concerned with who is "best" so long as I'm making enough to meet my wants (It's a game so I can't call them needs).

    But anyone whose only attack is to say "So and so is not a nice person" when the initial subject is on making money clearly has no evidence to support whichever side they're on. I'm wording that for the supporters of Gevlon as well as those of Markco, as I've seen it on both sides to varying degrees.

  37. I had a very specific reason for causing this drama, you will find out soon enough and it will shock you supporters of both sides.

  38. It better be a damn good reason, especially since you haven't even told people in the first place what this mysterious reason is which will "shock you supporters of both sides."

    Reading back I can see why you are so virulent but it's not very professional. And that's from someone who can't stand Gev's blog.

  39. "I had a very specific reason for causing this drama, you will find out soon enough and it will shock you supporters of both sides."

    The plot thickens... :)

  40. Look out for this friday's post :)

  41. "I had a very specific reason for causing this drama, you will find out soon enough and it will shock you supporters of both sides....Wait for fridays post...."

    Cheesy!

    I am not a fan of Gevlons M&S stuff either, but you bringing this grudge back into your blog is sad. Like a prev. poster said "Just because he made you look stupid about 6 months ago. You are just making yourself look more stupid now, when most people had probably forgotten about it. Holding a personal grudge in this deeply childish an pathetic way also kinda proves his points about "M&S" for him."

  42. Is there really even a grudge? Is this really even a contest? The 5 gold glyph strategy to defeat qa3 players will not work against the better auctioneers. Period.

    I point this out and senior Gevlon has a cow, sorry I'm just writing the facts to help my audience.

    I expected all of this, as well as comments backing up either side. I hope to enlighten you on friday :)

  43. I totaly agree with you :)
    I'm selling all the 400 Glyphs for 50gold for months. 1 gold cap/3month with only glyphs market.

    Once, there was a Gevlon like goblin. 24/24 present, and selling low cost glyphs.
    I just kept on buying all his low cost glyphs (<5gold) and relisting them at 30/50 gold.
    Twice a day.

    He was there for 3 months, but now he seems bored of this competition and he has left, leaving the whole market to me :)

    It's no used writing hate mail to a competitor. Just make his Working time crafting glyphs/earning gold less profitable, and he will leave as soon as he got enough gold. :)

  44. I first discoverd gevlon's blog and tried his method.
    Finally I've tried QA3, KTQ with a monopolist method (buying deep undercutter's glyphs, then relisting/stocking them). Those addons saves me a lot of time compared to Auctioneer.

    I've beaten 4 real other glyphs goblin's so far, and I'm now alone on the glyph market, free to increase the price. (But I've put the price "reasonably low", because the higher the price is, the more goblin's will come back to the market)

    Buying 5 glyphes at 5 gold, emptying other goblin's stock, and selling one of his glyph 50 gold just after is priceless :) (and saving time for milling/4 crafting/trading ink)

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